#160 | The Truth About Pablo Escobar

00:00:01.26
Ricky: You're back.

00:00:02.35
Bardi: I'm back in England.

00:00:03.93
Ricky: How does it feel?

00:00:05.59
Bardi: Do you know what? It's really weird. After being in Colombia for a couple of months, I was walking around the shopping center and I said to Lena, I'm really in Colombia, man. Everybody's just speaking Spanish.

00:00:15.83
Bardi: And it's it's like your your brain is trying to process and is constantly trying to translate, translate, translate.

00:00:22.65
Ricky: yeah, yeah.

00:00:23.42
Bardi: So I would end the day just really tired. And then now I'm back here and I sat in the coffee shop the other day and I was just like, I don't know, like an FBI tracking thing, just listening to all the conversations going, oh my God, it's English. Let me listen in. Let me listen in.

00:00:39.35
Ricky: ah it's It's like, ah you know, if if you're listening to something and it's always fuzzy and then you land in England and then it find it's a fine-tuned thing, the frequency finally hits and you're like, shit, I can hear again.

00:00:49.57
Bardi: Yeah.

00:00:51.51
Ricky: Like, brilliant.

00:00:52.82
Bardi: it It's amazing the things that you miss. Like I went to cross the road and in Colombia, crossing the road in Colombia, you take your life in your hands because people don't stop. Zebra crossings, they go through.

00:01:04.92
Bardi: So I got to the thing and the car, first number one car, the first car stopped. And I was just like, welcome home, buds.

00:01:11.16
Ricky: wow ah

00:01:13.62
Bardi: Here we are. I was driving down the road and I was doing 30 miles an hour and the car behind me didn't overtake me because they will overtake you.

00:01:24.15
Bardi: the speed limit doesn't exist. It's ah it's ah it's a concept that doesn't doesn't matter because the police will get into this. The police in Colombia have bigger things to worry about than some man doing 37 miles an hour.

00:01:35.26
Bardi: so no… No one overtook me in the 30, despite a car being behind me.

00:01:36.22
Ricky: ah

00:01:39.98
Bardi: And it was like, it's so civilized, the driving in this country. It's it's wonderful.

00:01:45.63
Ricky: How is your um Colombian? Now, Colombian, the language, is it on par with European Spanish or is it or is there subtle differences or is there complete differences?

00:02:01.27
Bardi: There is subtle differences in terms of accent. It's far less, thethathha you know, there's that that Spanish sound that they make.

00:02:07.90
Ricky: Yeah.

00:02:08.47
Bardi: So it's far cleaner. It's also, so you you do Duolingo. So you know, vosotros, so there's there's you, yo, tu, el, nosotros, but there's no vosotros.

00:02:14.51
Ricky: Hmm.

00:02:24.31
Bardi: there's nosotros, there's no vosotros.

00:02:28.22
Ricky: Right, okay.

00:02:28.69
Bardi: So that whole bit of grammar is just gone. So which, yeah, that is nice.

00:02:31.88
Ricky: Oh, nice.

00:02:34.62
Bardi: And then there is kind of subtle differences in terms of politeness. Colombian Spanish is far, far softer, far nicer. For example, if I say, me regalas un vino, would you gift me a wine?

00:02:47.96
Ricky: Yeah.

00:02:48.18
Bardi: In Colombia, they're like, that's very polite, very nice.

00:02:50.16
Ricky: That's fucking amazing.

00:02:50.22
Bardi: But if you, yeah, yeah.

00:02:50.96
Ricky: I understood that. Fucking come on, Rick.

00:02:53.40
Bardi: But if you say if you say in Spain, me regalas un vinito, una aguita, whatever you want. And also I did the feminine there, put the ito at the end, but whatever.

00:03:00.98
Ricky: yeah

00:03:01.72
Bardi: If you say regalas, no, I'm not going to gift you. I will give you one or you buy one, but I'm not going to gift it to you.

00:03:09.02
Ricky: i Right, right, right.

00:03:09.75
Bardi: So there's subtle differences in terms of slang and stuff.

00:03:13.94
Ricky: When you're speaking to them, ah do you have to say, I'm English, I know Colombian, but slow it down a bit? Or do you just go in there ten toes and be like, right, I'm fucking i'm just getting involved here?

00:03:27.54
Bardi: i just I've always just gone in and getting involved. And I think my wife's kind of proud of me that I don't get embarrassed easily. I mean, 13 years of of saying everything that comes into your head on a podcast helps in that kind of way.

00:03:41.46
Bardi: But I would just…

00:03:42.10
Ricky: ah

00:03:43.10
Bardi: if The most important thing to me has always been i want to be understood. I just would like to communicate with you and I would like to express what I need or what I'm feeling. And if I make some grammatical errors, then so be it. But as long as I'm understood, which has been great for just kind of being there on holiday.

00:04:01.98
Bardi: But I'm finding if I have any intention to be there long term, I'm going to have to slow things down and become a bit more precise in my grammar. Do you see what I mean?

00:04:11.10
Ricky: Yeah, I was saying to Flav that um maybe like I'm nowhere near, and I mean nowhere near fluent in Spanish. And if you were to say ah a paragraph or a sentence and it's got 30 words in, I could ah pick out 10 or say 10 and they would be able to piece together…

00:04:33.24
Ricky: what I'm trying to say, and then they would be able to kind of direct me or speak to me that in that kind of manner. I'm quite confident with that and reading and stuff like that. I can get the general gist of what things are ah being said, but that kind of fluency. And the thing is as well, I don't know whether it's being British,

00:04:52.73
Ricky: um but there is that embarrassment thing. of if i go if I go to a bar and I'll be there ready to give my order, right?

00:04:57.43
Bardi: There is, yeah. Yeah.

00:05:06.14
Ricky: I'll be there and I'm kind of like gearing myself up and I know what I need to get. i know the order and all that lot. And they come over to me, but I hear the person next to me just ordered in English. I'll just do it in English.

00:05:20.15
Ricky: And I'm like, I should have done it in Spanish, but I fucking bottle it.

00:05:20.15
Bardi: Yeah.

00:05:24.82
Ricky: So it's…

00:05:25.23
Bardi: It's not bottling.

00:05:25.62
Ricky: it

00:05:26.43
Bardi: It's just choosing the path of of least resistance, which is ah a common thing in language.

00:05:29.05
Ricky: Yeah.

00:05:30.91
Bardi: I get upset when… I don't get upset. it Upset is probably a bit too strong. But if I'm ordering in Spanish and the waiter knows a bit of English and then tries to help me out in English, sometimes sometimes I'm very grateful if it was a something complicated.

00:05:47.93
Bardi: But if it's just a few different things, then just just let me just let me speak in in Spanish.

00:05:53.82
Ricky: Yeah. What are the, like, the kind of main differences that you… know of, well, not know of, but that are just kind of quite startling in Columbia in comparison to the British Isles.

00:06:08.41
Bardi: like like That's a podcast in itself, Latin America versus versus Europe.

00:06:08.50
Ricky: Like,

00:06:12.82
Ricky: sure. Yeah, well, actually, we should do that that would be that.

00:06:16.02
Bardi: It's huge.

00:06:17.39
Ricky: That'd be great. But is there what, like, ah the the reason why ask, um and maybe not… in terms of culture and all that lot, but you looked like such a happy bunny with your pint of Guinness sitting at a pub.

00:06:35.22
Bardi: Yeah, so…

00:06:35.70
Ricky: like is Is there no Guinness in Colombia or is it just that it was that nostalgia of being back on the shores and you were able to be at a traditional British pub with a pint of Guinness?

00:06:48.09
Bardi: So for people that don't know or don't follow me on Instagram, you're referring to a post yesterday where I was sat in a pub in St. Albans having a pint of Guinness and I felt at home. And the thing is, because Guinness doesn't travel to South America, they just don't do it.

00:06:57.34
Ricky: Yes.

00:07:01.97
Bardi: So you can buy cans, but I think it's like 10 to 15 pounds a can for a so for Guinness.

00:07:07.46
Ricky: Oh my good lord.

00:07:09.31
Bardi: So if a good friend of mine has a bar in a nice part of Medellin. And he um quite often he gets offered Guinness for St. Patrick's Day. Someone's importing it. But he would have to mark it up so much that it wouldn't make him any money. so And people just refuse to pay it.

00:07:25.62
Bardi: But what is what's always I've missed in Colombia has been the kind of beer culture and having a pint, going somewhere for a beer because they drink a lot of spirits. But slowly but surely, it's quite nice that the beer culture is coming in a little bit more in Medellin.

00:07:40.45
Ricky: Right, okay.

00:07:42.04
Bardi: Because before it'd be like Aguardiente, which is like their sugar, their cane spirit, which is like fire water. That's what it translates to.

00:07:50.36
Ricky: Is that what you gave to me at Oasis?

00:07:50.37
Bardi: Or that's gave to you, Oasis. Yeah. So that's that's what they that's what they drink. They drink shots of that. um And they would drink beer really kind of during the day or when they're hung over because their beer is very light.

00:08:04.74
Bardi: Think think cause light kind of kind of terrible.

00:08:07.00
Ricky: Right, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:08:08.86
Bardi: But beer culture is starting to come in in Medellin, especially. There's um a really nice Belgian beer called Torre Alta, which is strong as hell, but really nice. And they've got a brewery, kind of like the Beaver Town thing that used to have near Tottenham, where you can go in, sit in the brewery, have pints.

00:08:25.54
Bardi: They put a dartboard in. So they're kind of embracing Belgian beer and British culture. And then there's other smaller breweries popping up. So beer is starting to become a thing now where you can go out and have a pint rather than going out and doing the load of spirits.

00:08:36.63
Ricky: Yeah.

00:08:39.16
Ricky: Nice.

00:08:39.98
Bardi: Mm-hmm.

00:08:40.34
Ricky: um I am looking forward to getting into this and I just, you know what? I just want to get fucking stuck into this, mate. So I'm going to run the theme tune.

00:09:17.98
Ricky: Hello and welcome to Lads Anonymous. This is episode 160. I'm Ricky. He's Bardi. Two very good mates tackling one big topic.

00:09:24.50
Bardi: Thank you.

00:09:27.46
Ricky: And today, this week, it's going to be ah Pablo Escobar and… American drug cartels. Well, South American, Central, wherever, you know, wherever the ah the story takes us. We'll solve your dilemmas and your deepest confessions in something only you know. I've got a banger for you.

00:09:48.12
Ricky: i knew as you were coming on, I've been saving this. I didn't know when to release but thought that Barney is going to, he's going to like savor this one.

00:09:52.92
Bardi: ah

00:09:57.98
Bardi: Mm-hmm.

00:09:58.33
Ricky: So grab a brew, settle in, and welcome to Lads Anonymous. so how's it going, mate? How are you? Like, we've just been chatting. First of all, this podcast isn't just listened to the fighting cock lot, right?

00:10:15.90
Ricky: ah And there are many people that listen that don't support Tottenham, that have no idea of the Tottenham sphere. So i'll um I'll let you introduce yourself.

00:10:28.95
Bardi: so So my name is Bardi. i I've known you now for what? I think it's like 13, 14 years that we've that we've known each other.

00:10:36.38
Ricky: Jesus Christ. Yeah.

00:10:38.21
Bardi: Time has flown by and we met like a lot of people these days. It's not embarrassing anymore via the internet because we both both shared a passion of spurs.

00:10:45.21
Ricky: Yes.

00:10:47.24
Bardi: I started listening to you on the the Fighting Cock.

00:10:47.80
Ricky: Yep.

00:10:49.96
Bardi: I, at the time, had just finished studying journalism and I needed to get my writing, my content out there. And you guys were a lovely space and gave me the freedom to write. Occasionally got you guys in trouble, but it was really nice to write for you.

00:11:03.22
Bardi: And then from there, who who knew that um writing about Spurs, talking about Spurs would lead to something which now pays part of my salary. And it's an incredible, incredible thing.

00:11:13.28
Bardi: But more than that, I count you as one of my best friends. And it's it's really nice really nice to spend just spend this time with you.

00:11:16.60
Ricky: ah

00:11:20.12
Ricky: God bless you. So Bardi is part of the Extra Inch podcast, a Tottenham podcast that, you know, it's fair to say it's more focused on the tactical element, would you say?

00:11:32.65
Bardi: Definitely. um Nathan and Wendy, who are my co-hosts, are definitely into the more kind of tactical, more youth side of football, whereas I'm a bit like you, Rick, a bit of man in the streets, you know, voice from the crowd.

00:11:41.59
Ricky: Yeah, we're meeting potatoes. we you know yeah we We're there for the culture, not for the XG.

00:11:49.46
Bardi: ah i think my potatoes and meat is a bit more refined than yours, but yeah.

00:11:53.50
Ricky: ah So if you do want to check out the Extra Inch, I think it's just the Extra Inch. You can find it anywhere, isn't it?

00:12:04.18
Bardi: Yeah, find us everywhere. we have ah We have a patron and behind the paywall, we have some incredible tactical videos. We do deep dives into to players Tottenham are linked with. We do deep dives into tactical changes and the nuances of that. We have book clubs. We have a Discord, which is an open space for everybody. And we just, yeah, we try be as inclusive as possible to everybody that that likes the kind of more um refined side of of of football, really.

00:12:31.58
Ricky: And before I forget, because I absolutely will, where if after this episode or during, if people love you, Bardi, where can they follow you?

00:12:42.84
Bardi: Me, i'm I'm on Blue Sky and on X at Bardi, T-E-I. Yeah, those are my two main ones. I have Instagram, but i don't really push that. It's more like for friends and family, but it's an open profile. People want to find me there, but Bardi, T-E-I for everything, really.

00:12:57.69
Ricky: Lovely stuff. ah Normally, I do start with Flav and I say, what are we going to be covering today? But I think you already know, and I think everyone already knows as well because we've, you know, I actually said it at the top of show anyway.

00:13:07.97
Bardi: Mm-hmm.

00:13:13.27
Ricky: But we are going to be doing a lot on this episode on Pablo Escobar. Now, You would have heard Bardi and I speaking. Now, Bardi, although he probably might not like to admit it, that he was born in England. ah But ah to to be ah fair, right, what I'll say is that Bardi, and I hope you don't mind me saying this, Bardi's wife is Colombian.

00:13:40.22
Ricky: And they are currently living in Colombia at the moment. And Bardi, obviously his wife is Colombian. So he spent much of his time over there as well on holidays, extended breaks, all of that stuff. So how long have you been living in Colombia at the moment?

00:13:57.72
Bardi: So I've been going backwards and forwards from Colombia for holidays or extended periods of time since 2008. So it's it's quite a long time. December 2008, I went over with a two week ticket and because of love and because of everything else, I stayed two months.

00:14:13.40
Bardi: which my mate my mate who let me stay in his house was a bit unimpressed with because he thought he was just got two weeks and then I would just go.

00:14:13.96
Ricky: Oh! oh

00:14:20.76
Ricky: ah

00:14:22.71
Bardi: but i I ended up staying two months and loved the place. Obviously, it happened. i fell in love with my my girlfriend at the time, my wife now. and Yeah, so since 2008, backwards and forwards. But in November…

00:14:37.11
Bardi: Last year, November 2025, we decided to move there for a year to help with my mother-in-law who's suffering quite badly from Alzheimer's and help her family adjust and try and figure out the way to to manage the situation. And just for my wife really to spend some time with her with her mother before she completely forgot who she was. So, um yeah. so since So, nine months now I've been there, which it's flown by. I can't believe it.

00:15:03.12
Ricky: Fucking hell, nine months, really?

00:15:04.50
Bardi: Yeah.

00:15:04.64
Ricky: e

00:15:05.58
Bardi: Mm-hmm.

00:15:06.26
Ricky: Good Lord. and And do you think you may extend that stay over there now? Or is it like, or can you tell, is this is this going to be ITK, Bardi ITK?

00:15:18.20
Bardi: um At the moment, I'm still booked in to come back in November because that's when i need to be back for work.

00:15:23.90
Ricky: Right, okay, right, I see, I see. And whereabouts is it that your wife is from? yeah I don't need exact, but the city that, you know.

00:15:31.86
Bardi: Yeah. So she's from Medellin, which is obviously at the heart of of this episode. But funnily enough, we actually live in Rio Negro, which is where Pablo Escobar was born. So Pablo Escobar, despite being part Medellin cartel, is technically not from Medellin, technically not a paisa. He's from Rio Negro, which is the other side of of the mountain. So it's about 35 to minute drive from

00:15:59.16
Ricky: Fucking hell, I didn't even know that.

00:16:00.82
Bardi: Yeah. it did i yet I'm not like Flav.

00:16:01.83
Ricky: I've

00:16:03.82
Bardi: I prepare for things. sorry but

00:16:05.11
Ricky: heard you saying the word…

00:16:07.58
Bardi: So um I thought, like I'm sure he's from Medellin. And then I looked, no, he's from he's from it' from brion Rio Negro. So um yeah, which is where which is iss a large piece of, it's a large area. So there's a town called Rio Negro, but then there's like surrounding parts of it. So it's like an an an area.

00:16:25.11
Ricky: and i've heard you saying the word And I don't want butcher it.

00:16:32.18
Bardi: yeah

00:16:32.42
Ricky: I know more than likely won't pronounce it how you're doing it, but meddling, that's how, you know, a British guy would be. That's how I've been saying it my my whole life.

00:16:42.44
Ricky: Right.

00:16:43.18
Bardi: Congratulations, Ricky. You've just been mugged in Colombia because you just said that word. going, gringo. well Because you'd you'd be all right because you're you're not as tall as I am.

00:16:47.68
Ricky: Okay.

00:16:53.82
Ricky: right okay

00:16:54.36
Bardi: So you wouldn't stand out as much as as as much as I do or as much as other gringos who go there. But in…

00:17:00.38
Ricky: I can maybe get away with a bit of Latin, you know, the color of the skin, you know, maybe, you know.

00:17:02.33
Bardi: I think so. 100%, you'd get away with it. No one, if you walked past, maybe your your club or your outfits would would give you away, would show you're not from there.

00:17:11.19
Ricky: Okay.

00:17:13.41
Bardi: But in terms of height and skin tone, you you'd be fine. But the the double L sound makes a J.

00:17:17.37
Ricky: Right. Good.

00:17:21.51
Bardi: It makes a J sound.

00:17:23.29
Ricky: So Medellin, Medellin.

00:17:24.14
Bardi: Medellin. Medellin. Medellin.

00:17:28.06
Ricky: Shit, man.

00:17:29.08
Bardi: Yeah.

00:17:30.71
Ricky: is that I mean, like, I'm just trying to think. um In European Spanish, that's not… The double L is not a J.

00:17:37.38
Bardi: No, don't think so. i've never like i've i've done technical I've done professional Spanish lessons, but they've all my teachers have always been Latin American. So um I don't know technically in Castellano, whether it would be that, but in in South America, Medellin.

00:17:55.35
Ricky: Fucking hell. Well, I mean, for this episode, I i just feel weird saying Reda Jin.

00:18:00.44
Bardi: ah It's like a lot of foreign languages. When you when you say it, you immediately feel so feel self-conscious or silly when you when you when you start rolling your R's or doing the thirst sound.

00:18:06.55
Ricky: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:18:11.11
Bardi: Okay.

00:18:11.80
Ricky: Yeah, I think I'll stick to the British version and you keep it real from your side, the Colombian version.

00:18:16.76
Bardi: okay

00:18:18.71
Ricky: um So he was just saying about ah Pablo Escobar and I just assumed that from like a lot of his kind of growing up that it was in meddling.

00:18:31.06
Bardi: So the thing about Medellin is it's ah it's ah the city itself technical but historically was quite small and it's in a valley. And what it's done is it's just spread and spread and spread and swallowed up smaller towns and smaller towns and just become huge. So like the the famous prison where he imprisoned himself, La Cateredal, is in Empigado, which is used to be its own different area, but is now part of, ah comes under the the bracket of Medellin.

00:18:55.35
Ricky: Thank

00:19:01.04
Bardi: Rio Negro, where I live, even that is now starting to be swallowed up because it's just growing. Medellin is it in a, it's in a boom phase in terms of growth, tourism, and just the amount of people there now that it's it's just growing all the time. it's it's It's on the rise. It's fast becoming ah Colombia's like main, but most popular town in terms of in terms of growth and economy.

00:19:26.90
Ricky: Wow. Like in, so obviously, you know, I'm from Milton Keynes, but back in the day where London was expanding and, you know, there was new new parts being added to it all the time because London is just sprawling.

00:19:34.33
Bardi: Yeah.

00:19:40.49
Ricky: There was always this, people would have like cross fingers, like, come on, graze Milton Keynes, just graze, just graze us for that area. And we'll be like, yeah, we're London, Milton Keynes. Yeah.

00:19:50.64
Bardi: it's's It's what's happening. it's just It's just expanding all the time. they They're building constantly. And Rio Negro used to be like a a countryside getaway. Envigado used to be a countryside getaway.

00:20:03.36
Bardi: where So they would have, um because travel for Colombians traditionally, didn't they didn't leave the country because of the the cost and everything else. They have these things called fincas. So we'll touch on that with Escobar.

00:20:14.52
Ricky: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:20:15.64
Bardi: So it's like a country home, but technically it means a farm and Rio Negro would be somewhere they would travel to, because they use that in Spanish as well in in Spain, Spain and Rio Negro was somewhere they would drive to and spend long weekends there, bank holidays there.

00:20:19.32
Ricky: Yes.

00:20:24.22
Ricky: Yeah.

00:20:30.16
Bardi: But now, like I said, I, I live there and it's 30 now to build a tunnel straight through the mountain. It's 35 minutes, 40 minutes into town and then out again. So it is just growing at an exponential rate.

00:20:42.81
Ricky: My father, as you well know, um his dream was to always own a Finca in Spain, stand a dirt track, like seven bedroom farmhouse pool, all of that.

00:20:45.46
Bardi: Yeah.

00:20:54.91
Ricky: I mean, I still, I still got my eye on that in my latter years, but oh man, that'd be the dream.

00:21:00.70
Bardi: I live on a Finca.

00:21:00.93
Ricky: lawyers

00:21:01.50
Bardi: I live on a small i small, what you would call a Finca. It's a piece of land. and The owner of the land built built ah ah a wooden couple of wooden houses. We live there.

00:21:12.22
Bardi: it's ah It's a bit more modern, but it's still what traditionally we you would call a Finca. So it's really nice.

00:21:17.50
Ricky: Shit. So do you actually live up in like the the hills then? Or is it a bit more really?

00:21:22.30
Bardi: Yeah. the Not hills, mate. It's mountains. i live at two…

00:21:25.93
Ricky: Mountains, sorry.

00:21:26.38
Bardi: think

00:21:26.66
Ricky: So yeah.

00:21:30.04
Bardi: I live ah i think i live higher than Snowden. i live meters above sea level. So it was quite funny when England played Mexico in the Azteca, everyone's going, oh, the altitude, the altitude. tell him like ah that's I run every day. I run 25. When I do my long runs, I'm running 25, 30 kilometers at 2,200 meters old all the time.

00:21:53.29
Ricky: And is it noticeably that much harder?

00:21:55.74
Bardi: Yeah, at first, the the initial shock is is quite surprising because the air is thinner. But I'm now um i'm now a bushy, which is not as quite as exotic as Medellin.

00:22:08.09
Ricky: ah ah Not as mountainous.

00:22:09.40
Bardi: But I'm only at, not as definitely, but there's a couple of hills.

00:22:10.66
Ricky: It's

00:22:12.59
Bardi: But 134 meters above sea level, so it's a huge, huge difference.

00:22:17.64
Ricky: fucking hell. So when you're going for your runs today or or whenever, you'll be flying around.

00:22:22.23
Bardi: Turbocharged, mate.

00:22:23.38
Ricky: ah Right. Speaking about Pablo, and we are on first-time names now, like he's like he's grown up.

00:22:30.30
Bardi: Yeah.

00:22:32.20
Ricky: when When I was reading about it, he it wasn't like he was from like a poor background, like dirt kicker.

00:22:40.22
Bardi: Yeah.

00:22:40.47
Ricky: It was like from ah from a modest background. um So it wasn't like, you know, how he, you know, a lot of the these kind of And I don't, you know, to say this, I'm just using it as ah as a term, like a villain arc. Like you come from a poor background, poor family, a lot of abuse and stuff like that. And then today you're this kind of, you know, villain or whatever you want to call yourself. don't know how you get there, but he wasn't like that.

00:23:10.30
Ricky: um And he…

00:23:10.42
Bardi: No.

00:23:11.61
Ricky: Yeah, go on, sorry.

00:23:11.90
Bardi: Yeah. So he wasn't he but he wasn't poor, poor, but there is ah there is a massive… The class divide in Colombia is huge. So those that that have money and then you have um you have a real big upper middle class, but then you have huge swathes of poverty as well, which is, as we get into the story, you'll see how he tried to harness that and use that to his benefit.

00:23:35.02
Bardi: So there is a huge class divide. So to say you're… he definitely wouldn't have been considered middle class there. He would have been poor, but perhaps, yeah, but not, yeah, thought yeah he wouldn't have been, he was he would he'd still be classified as poor.

00:23:50.62
Ricky: Right, okay. So so is is it like our um class system, but when we say working class here, it's a lot different over there?

00:24:04.58
Ricky: It's a lot poorer over there?

00:24:04.98
Bardi: It's totally different, totally different. So the the thing about Colombia is labor is so cheap because the the the working class that you want to call it is is is is huge.

00:24:16.61
Bardi: So things um like you would never, very few families, like we all had summer jobs. We all worked in supermarkets.

00:24:23.85
Ricky: Mm.

00:24:24.74
Bardi: We all worked in restaurants. We've all done that. It's a very English thing that we do. that just that wouldn't happen there because those jobs are just filled with lower class, the the lower working classes.

00:24:28.18
Ricky: Yeah.

00:24:34.17
Ricky: Right.

00:24:35.33
Bardi: So it's quite common. My wife's family, for example, that you wouldn't you wouldn't call them rich at all. They would have a lady that would come four or five days a week to do the cooking and cleaning for them every single day just because

00:24:46.04
Ricky: Oh!

00:24:46.83
Bardi: that's what that's that's it That's just what it is what it's like there at the moment. So um you would have, we we have a guy that comes to ah cut our grass and look after our garden once a month. um then That's not extravagant, but that's just the the the level of payment.

00:25:02.10
Bardi: If you terms of of a cleaner, a cleaner will work six six to eight hours a day for 20 something pounds. And it's just because of the massive divide that there is.

00:25:10.10
Ricky: Wow.

00:25:13.10
Bardi: And um Yeah, so I don't think Escobar, though, wasn't Paul Paul, I don't think he would be classified as as middle class for sure. Yeah, du wouldn't be there.

00:25:22.26
Ricky: So like how like the the bit in between how like obviously we get to the seventies, but of the, the big, uh, cocaine boom, shall we say, but the kind of leading up to that, he did get into, uh, he did start to go down the, the bad path now.

00:25:34.76
Bardi: Yeah.

00:25:42.68
Bardi: He had some criminal, there's definitely criminal records there of car theft, extortion, kidnapping, which is is a common thing. And that still happens today, stealing.

00:25:53.51
Ricky: Stealing and stuff like that. Yeah. Yeah.

00:25:56.09
Bardi: And then Colombia was obviously doing a lot of export in in marijuana, but then, you know, the US started to grow their own and it became far more but economical to to do cocaine, to to export cocaine.

00:26:11.13
Bardi: So even though the procedure to it's easier to grow marijuana than it is to make cocaine because cocaine, you need labs and you need people to do the work.

00:26:19.64
Ricky: Yeah.

00:26:19.91
Bardi: But

00:26:19.95
Ricky: Mm.

00:26:20.86
Bardi: you could pack it. You could pack loads more into a container. Marijuana, as we know, is very bulky. So ah one kilo of marijuana is huge compared to one kilo of cocaine.

00:26:26.36
Ricky: o

00:26:30.16
Bardi: And Pablo Escobar, he was it he was ah a logistics master, like just a logistics mastermind. And that was the the key to his early success.

00:26:42.01
Bardi: He understood how to transport it, methods to do it, and made it work for him in an incredible way. He was making so much money by the late early 80s.

00:26:55.70
Ricky: So I am, obviously, i am an ignorant European who watches films as his only reference.

00:27:07.13
Ricky: And you see, and not not Colombia, but Brazil, Australia, You see young teenagers walking around with guns and on the back of motorbikes. And you see all these like Louis Theroux type documentaries where they are hit men and they're doing drugs and drug smuggling and all of that stuff.

00:27:26.81
Ricky: Now, is that is that comparable with Colombia? And is is that kind of where you maybe Pablo Escobar… That's where his journey started doing things like that and being young enough to be involved with that. And that's where kind of money was.

00:27:44.95
Bardi: Yeah, it's um since the since I started going in 2008, things have changed, become safer. And obviously 2008 was well after, what was it, it was six, 14 years after the death of Pablo Escobar. So things had changed.

00:28:01.05
Bardi: And I think the the the bloody period towards the end of his of his reign there, it it did have a change on things. It's not to say it's a safe place anymore. But during that era, he was ah an inspiration to to other people to go out there and commit similar crimes, to do the kidnapping, to take what they wanted. And that was, it wasn't just Escobar, he set the precedent which other people followed that if they want something, they can just go out and take it, they can just go out and demand it. And I think that was one of the issues with him. So it wasn't just him committing all the murders and the kidnappings. It was him inspiring other people out there to to go chase that easy money.

00:28:42.26
Ricky: Right. Okay. I get you. And then speaking about that, so we've got like the kind of um the cocaine boom in the seventies where that's where he kind of reached his peak.

00:28:51.46
Bardi: Mm-hmm.

00:28:55.52
Ricky: So like you're saying about he understood about distribution and how to kind of ah make it and make it on mass and and all of that stuff.

00:29:07.64
Ricky: I mean, ah I'd like to go into specifics about that, but I don't have any clue on how cocaine was made, where it was made, ah like if it was done in the the mountains. but you know Because you you see these documentaries and they're always like in wooded areas where it's secluded because they know there's helicopters and, you know, surveillance and all of that. But back then it would have been a lot less…

00:29:36.18
Ricky: obviously with surveillance and helicopters and stuff. Do you know of um any places like ah where you live that if there is like a tourist thing as to say, oh and these forests around here, this is where Pablo did his first kind of lab tests and all that. Yeah.

00:29:53.98
Bardi: No, so the topography of Colombia is wild. um I remember when I first went, I messaged a message with friend of mine and said, look, I will fly to Bogota and I'll jump on the train and get the train from Bogota to Medellin. And he sent me a message immediately saying, stop what you're doing, you idiot. There are no trains in Colombia.

00:30:14.46
Bardi: In my head, it was like, you know, fly to Birmingham International, jump on a train and and get it done.

00:30:20.25
Ricky: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:30:21.72
Bardi: But I was such a virgin. i had no i had no idea what the topography of the country was. And now thinking about I'm just like, that's wild. Because it's pure mountains. There's like three valleys that run directly through the country. And nothing is flat. Everything in this country, everything in that country is either up or down. So if you want to put a cocaine lab, you put it in the forest, they they're not going to find it. they At the moment, the brand new president, the right wing guy, he wants to go blow up the coca plants, coca cocaine plantations, get rid of FARC, get rid of all the guerrillas, guerrillas who are still out there.

00:30:59.54
Bardi: But you you don you don't know where they are because you you can't find them. So even today, with today's modern technology, it's difficult to find something in the out and in that land.

00:31:03.03
Ricky: yeah

00:31:09.51
Bardi: So back in the 70s and 80s, it was pretty much impossible.

00:31:14.10
Ricky: Fuck God yeah yeah that I mean yeah How would you find it and stuff It's fucking mental isn't it

00:31:15.38
Bardi: Yeah, it's wild, man.

00:31:21.06
Bardi: You couldn't. You can't find it now with drones and satellites and the rest of it. You're you're not going to find it. there's The night manager was… an okay TV program but if you want to get an idea the second season is set in Columbia and there's they go out to the the jungle and and you you do get a little bit of sense from that show that yeah stuff in the jungle it just remains hidden unless you've got the direct GPS pinpoint of the the location you can't find anything there

00:31:48.63
Ricky: m Have you ever been tempted to try and like, I don't know if there's any of your wife's friends that know of a friend of that, you know, could take you on a tour or anything like that.

00:32:00.16
Ricky: If you if you knew it was like safe or something like that, would you go and have a look at ah how it's produced?

00:32:00.86
Bardi: Well,

00:32:07.10
Bardi: um i think I think what we're doing here is we're jumping we're jumping ahead in terms of um in terms of impact and lasting legacy on Pablo Escobar.

00:32:15.29
Ricky: Okay. Okay.

00:32:16.12
Bardi: So I think we we can come back to that because there's there's a lot to talk about in terms of what his what his impact's been on modern-day Colombia and in terms of narco-tourism, which is ah which is a thing which…

00:32:26.64
Bardi: um you know, people come to Colombia for the the beautiful scenery, the beautiful weather, the beautiful women, music, but they also come as well for the darker side of things, the the drug tourism, their sex tourism, which they're trying to break as well.

00:32:40.85
Bardi: So there is that as well, which is a legacy of of of him. But I think it's,

00:32:45.24
Ricky: Sex tourism as well.

00:32:46.71
Bardi: Sex tourism is is a huge thing there and there are reports of people coming in via the US and when they go through customs, their phone gets snatched. and Customs will go through their Instagram, go through their WhatsApp to make sure they're not setting up sex tourism. They're not sex tourists.

00:33:02.78
Bardi: So that that's that's happening with gringos at the moment.

00:33:02.84
Ricky: Wow.

00:33:05.66
Bardi: But circling back to logistics,

00:33:08.12
Ricky: Yeah.

00:33:08.44
Bardi: So Escobar figured out how to get the drugs because Miami is not far away from Colombia in real terms. It's a three hour flight.

00:33:16.25
Ricky: Yeah.

00:33:17.20
Bardi: So his the biggest thing that happened is his partner, Carlos Leda, bought a place called Norman's Cay in the Bahamas. And that way they split the journey. So they would fly the drugs to bahamas refuel and then a slingshot straight into Miami from then and in the 70s and 80s there there wasn't the radar there or the satellites that exist today so they were light planes twin engine planes were able to get in and out really fast and the the upside of just one making it would cover the the loss of one not making it because they were making so much money from it

00:33:32.86
Ricky: Right.

00:33:51.58
Ricky: Wow.

00:33:51.77
Bardi: And and that was that was the key to him, understanding that and then being able to to bribe individuals, bribe enforcement agencies and people like that to allow the planes to take off and get in and out. And I think he even had a landing strip in his Finca about two hours outside of Medellin, a little hacienda Napoles.

00:34:14.10
Ricky: So with that, right, um is, you know, I don't know if I'm but you know drawing the right lines here, but the film Blow with Johnny Depp and they they talk about you know the islands and the you know it all sounds exactly kind of loosely based on that.

00:34:24.25
Bardi: Yeah. Mm-hmm.

00:34:34.22
Ricky: Would would that be fair as to say that's kind of the the setup that that they had going? Because it it i mean it just sounds exactly the same as you were saying, the same island as well, which you mentioned, I think.

00:34:41.72
Bardi: isn

00:34:46.94
Bardi: Yeah, so um it was submarines came in much later. they were They were new technology when Escobar was there. He didn't really use them that much. Nowadays, it's a lot vi by submarines just because it's it's easier.

00:34:59.73
Bardi: But i think the Johnny Depp film, Blow, I think it's based on a true story as well. And um yeah, that was that was how they did it.

00:35:05.91
Ricky: Oh, yeah, it is. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because I remember i ah remember the um being startled at the the end credits and the actual guy's face comes up and he's all withered and old and it's like, fucking hell, right, i okay, right.

00:35:15.36
Bardi: Hmm.

00:35:17.72
Bardi: Yep.

00:35:20.36
Ricky: But yeah, it does say that there are parallels to how you were saying about the planes and how they get in and out and, you know, the the little jump-offs and stuff like that.

00:35:29.73
Bardi: Yep.

00:35:29.88
Ricky: so ah So I'd imagine that after all of that, like… you You kind of… you know Sorry, you you said about submarines then. ah you to

00:35:39.35
Bardi: Yeah, they use submarines now.

00:35:41.64
Ricky: Are you talking about submarines to intercept the deals or or taking the cocaine?

00:35:44.79
Bardi: No. Taking the cocaine, they have these submarines. but like um like

00:35:51.86
Ricky: Holy shit! What,

00:35:53.02
Bardi: what What was that submarine called that went down to see the Titanic? Like that, full of drugs.

00:35:58.86
Ricky: the Titan? Yeah.

00:36:00.21
Bardi: They're titans. They have like titans or they have these massive, it's just like huge tubes and they just fill it full of drugs. and they just they just it just I don't know if it's um if it's the if it's remote controlled or it's dragged, but yeah, they're all transported now underwater.

00:36:16.25
Ricky: Fucking hell, I didn't know that.

00:36:18.07
Bardi: Yeah.

00:36:18.58
Ricky: just so I'm just like still, you just don't know, do you? Because in my mind i'm i'm not in my mind, it's like the boat, like an old boat, like the Santa Maria.

00:36:23.58
Bardi: Not every…

00:36:27.42
Bardi: Or up your bum. Or up your bum.

00:36:28.71
Ricky: yeah ah

00:36:29.42
Bardi: That's what you're thinking. How do you… How do you smuggle it?

00:36:32.16
Ricky: Tons of cocaine up your ass.

00:36:35.93
Bardi: That's how they're getting it in.

00:36:37.08
Ricky: ah

00:36:37.94
Bardi: No, Ricky, we got a submarine. No, it just give it to me.

00:36:39.86
Ricky: ah Stick it my arse.

00:36:42.18
Bardi: Yeah.

00:36:42.26
Ricky: Go on. Get loads in there.

00:36:44.54
Bardi: Yeah.

00:36:44.75
Ricky: Jesus Christ. What I do want to talk about the, because I'm not kind of like, a I don't really know a lot about it. And I don't know if you can enlighten me about the Medellin, the cartel.

00:36:58.07
Ricky: but what is a cartel you you hear about you hear about cartels in south america central america you know that this kind of i don't know is it like um is it just a club of primarily to sell drugs or is it like the cartel that um you can't drive down this road or you if you're down this motorway and you're paying the toll that's part of the cartel you're paying that like

00:37:00.36
Bardi: A cartel.

00:37:25.46
Bardi: So the it's um it's a group of a group of individuals that fix prices for their own benefits. So i guess I guess what Escobar did as well as logistics, he grouped everybody together so there was nobody in the city competing. And he either did that through through violence or people just accepted it and just just fed into him and he he became the capo, he became the boss.

00:37:48.66
Bardi: And between them, so there was one in Medellin, the two famous ones are Medellin and Cali. And though those were the two famous cartels that you that started out working in unison together.

00:37:54.90
Ricky: Right.

00:38:01.05
Ricky: Right. Okay.

00:38:01.98
Bardi: This is your territory. This is our territory. We'll share influence. We'll share information. But the two of them had very different techniques in in how to how to achieve their end result, which is why the Cali cartel lasted a lot longer than the Medellin cartel.

00:38:18.94
Ricky: Right. Okay. And ah like, let me have a look here. So I do have um some, so some little tidbits that I was looking through and ah it says the Medellin cartel is thought to have supplied around 70 to 80% of the cocaine entering the U S at its peak.

00:38:37.53
Bardi: They were making so much money. He didn't know what to do with it. He was buying all kinds of stuff. And he had so much cash money that he was digging holes in the ground and sticking money in the ground. And many years, I think even still to today to today, people were still digging holes looking for that money. he was he just There was so much money flowing in.

00:38:59.90
Bardi: I think the famous thing is Forbes. Did Forbes put him on the rich world's richest people list at one point?

00:39:06.58
Ricky: Yes. yeah, yeah.

00:39:08.00
Bardi: He, it was the the markup from from marijuana to cocaine was incredible. The boom in Miami, in San Francisco, in New York was, it was just sweeping across and it was, yeah, it's what made them so powerful and it, what made it, ultimately he had so much money and so much power that it led to his downfall because one individual with so much power starts starts getting delusions of grandeur and ideas way above their station.

00:39:34.99
Ricky: Hmm.

00:39:38.71
Ricky: and Like when you were saying about the burying of the money, so like another one of the little kind of tidbits is that him burying the money, a lot quite not like loads of it, but quite a lot of it just not evaporated, but was eaten by rats.

00:39:42.00
Bardi: Yeah, yeah.

00:39:54.18
Ricky: It's just so like it got moldy, it got damp, it was eaten by rats. He was burying it everywhere. And like you're saying, people still like you know believe that it's on a farm somewhere and they go digging for it and stuff like that.

00:40:05.88
Ricky: And he had so much money that he used to spend $2,500 month on elastic bands. like he is

00:40:18.71
Bardi: Yes, that's true. Yeah. thats um I love that stat.

00:40:21.58
Ricky: exporting…

00:40:22.54
Bardi: That's unbelievable. Can you imagine how many rubber bands that is?

00:40:29.16
Ricky: that's the thing though it's like he is exporting That amount of cocaine and that amount of money that he's earning.

00:40:41.34
Ricky: But it's all like today we've got bank transfers and that, but this is physical money. What do you do with that amount of physical money?

00:40:50.58
Bardi: that's, that's, where you, you start, you start paying off more people, the bigger you get, the more people you pay off. And then you, you, if you're Pablo Escobar anyway, and you have intentions of becoming president of the country, you use that money to try and win over the population to support you.

00:41:09.11
Bardi: And so that's,

00:41:09.48
Ricky: Right. So did did did he have aspirations to to be the president of Columbia?

00:41:14.78
Bardi: oh yeah.

00:41:17.34
Bardi: he had it He had real political, he had so much power and so much money that he thought he could pretty much do whatever he wanted. and But he remained, his biggest fear in life was extradition. He was petrified of being taken to America, of Colombia exporting him, maybe in a submarine, to to two ah to the States and him standing trial there and spending the rest of his days in ah in a prison in America.

00:41:44.41
Bardi: So he he started to go down the political route. He wanted to be um he wanted to be a politician, primarily not to make Colombia better place, not to change things, but for his own self-interest.

00:41:55.75
Bardi: Like we see a lot, Berlusconi, for example, in Italy did the same thing. Trump does the same thing as well. um These men of power want to get in a position of power so they can change the law to help them.

00:42:01.53
Ricky: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:42:06.93
Bardi: So he started making real big plays towards becoming a… um ah a member of parliament and then eventually with the idea of becoming a president.

00:42:16.95
Ricky: Fucking hell. I mean, the thing is, as well, like like you were saying earlier, and I think there was there was like ah an estimate ah you know in his height that he was worth or had 30 billion or something along those lines.

00:42:36.41
Ricky: And we've been talking about that the money, elastic bands, burying it, more money to know what to do with. You've basically got Colombia in your pocket, probably parts of America as well.

00:42:53.27
Ricky: where do you go from there? Like, as ah you know, you're a drug lord. So I think the natural route is to, not to get bored, but to kind of be like, I have all this wealth and all this power.

00:43:05.54
Ricky: It's probably a natural transition to go through a political route and to get even more.

00:43:10.46
Bardi: Legitimacy.

00:43:11.45
Ricky: Yeah, exactly. There you Lovely stuff.

00:43:13.02
Bardi: Yeah.

00:43:13.57
Ricky: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:43:14.07
Bardi: that's that's what they That's what they all crave. They want to be taken seriously as individuals who are who are doing good. And it takes a certain kind… I'm not a psychiatrist. I don't know the the technical terms, but it takes a certain individual with a certain mindset to just ignore. So he's making millions and we we haven't touched on, like the the real killing hasn't started, but killing has, the he though he is already, um is there is already corruption. There is already blackmailing. There was already murders taking place, but it hasn't reached the the pinnacle of what was his ultimate, but his fall, his fall, not from grace, but his fall is his collapse.

00:43:52.86
Bardi: But yeah, he he wants legitimacy. He wants to be taken seriously. He wants to be seen as a a hero to the people. And um to be fair to him, he starts to do that a little bit.

00:44:03.80
Bardi: He starts to be seen as a um a Robin Hood character who who gives to the poor. um he He builds football pitches, some football pitches which are still standing today.

00:44:14.46
Bardi: He builds a barrio after himself, of course, why wouldn't you? Calls it Barrio Escobar, which is still still in place today.

00:44:20.97
Ricky: So what's that?

00:44:23.35
Bardi: So he builds a neighborhood, he builds houses, he builds affordable houses for people.

00:44:25.43
Ricky: ah Oh, right. Okay. Right.

00:44:29.18
Bardi: So in in Colombia, what you have is you have like comunas, which are communities, and they basically, it's like a shantytown that will go on. It will be illegally created. People will just start building. And then at some point, if it if it survives 10 years, the the local council then have to recognize it as ah as a place to live. It's extremely poor, built with… um scrap materials and that kind of stuff so what escobar did was knock somebody's down and build affordable housing for people so that they could have running water electricity proper roof over over their heads and it it worked for a long time people like that and barrio escobar is probably one of the own i think well it is really the only place left standing of of escobar's in medellin and you the the narco tours go through there

00:45:17.53
Bardi: um Some people and who who still live in his houses have a nice, not not nice, but they're thankful for the houses they built in. But at what cost? there's ah there's There's a real cost to all of this.

00:45:31.67
Bardi: a lot of people's blood went into building those houses.

00:45:35.13
Ricky: So i am I obviously know, obviously speaking to you offline and over the many years that obviously you're quite ah passionate about obviously the history of Colombia and especially, you know, where your wife's from and Escobar and not Not passionate about Escobar, but the the the the kind of um the history and the storytelling and the the false kind of like, oh, it's just drugs, that kind of thing, cocaine.

00:45:54.07
Bardi: Yeah.

00:45:57.18
Bardi: The history of it.

00:46:04.98
Ricky: And, you know, it's all of those kind of cliche shit, really, that people speak about. So i'm I'm kind of, I'm obviously wary that we have like ah just over an hour and stuff like that to to talk about this.

00:46:19.65
Bardi: Hmm.

00:46:19.70
Ricky: So I don't want to kind of jump onto something else where you haven't like wanted to air anything, but you spoke about the murders and stuff like that.

00:46:28.15
Bardi: yeah

00:46:28.45
Ricky: So we're like, we are, we're talking about the communities. So he built these barriers, barriers,

00:46:36.48
Bardi: Barriers, yeah.

00:46:37.39
Ricky: Barrios. Sorry, did you say say the name was Barrio Escobar? That that was the name of that is fucking quality.

00:46:41.66
Bardi: Yeah, that's it.

00:46:44.31
Ricky: Where are you from, Barrio Escobar?

00:46:44.34
Bardi: Can you are you going to name it I'll name after myself. Yeah.

00:46:50.35
Ricky: Fucking hell. That's a certain name, isn't it?

00:46:52.09
Bardi: Still standing. Still there.

00:46:54.23
Ricky: So schools, football pitches, hospitals, all of that stuff that he built for the people.

00:46:59.64
Bardi: Hmm.

00:47:01.56
Ricky: um You know, he loves Colombia and he wants to go down this political route. But a lot of the people kind of know that he's murdered and he's kind of done a lot of bad stuff to get where he is and how how he's made his money, the way in which he has seized power in different places.

00:47:24.66
Ricky: But he's kind of like… bought the people if you will by giving them the communities and you know running water and all this other stuff like back then how was he perceived what was it do you know if he was more and and today really i don't know if theres there's any parallels or or anything but like was it a was it a that they loved him because he was Colombian and he was Pablo Escobar, or was it a love out of fear?

00:48:01.88
Bardi: So he this is a guy who's self-made billionaire who's worked his way up and made a lot of money. Now he's given it back. The crimes that he've committed is kind of far removed from those individuals.

00:48:16.24
Bardi: It's not on their doorstep at that moment. It's it's out there somewhere. It's happening. And in the same kind of way, oh, well, you know, Coca-Cola, Microsoft, whoever, those these big conglomerates are doing bad things as well.

00:48:25.15
Ricky: Thank you.

00:48:28.31
Bardi: But this guy is helping us. But he does that and then he starts to move through Congress. And then his downfall is he assassinates ah he he assassinates a a member of parliament. Minister of, and who was he? I want to get this correct. He served as a minister of justice. So Rodrigo Lara Bonilla.

00:48:47.64
Bardi: He assassinates this guy. Now, if I don't know if you've watched The Wire, but in The Wire, Stringer Bell has a beef of Clay Davis and he gets really upset and he goes to Slim Charles, Slim, I need you to whack Clay Davis.

00:48:55.70
Ricky: Right.

00:49:00.99
Bardi: And a Avon Barksdale walks in and goes… you're going to what? Assassinate a member of parliament. Like Slim is a guy from the corners. You want him to do some day of the jackal stuff and killer kill a senator.

00:49:15.54
Bardi: So what what he does is this senator calls out Escobar in front of the in front of Congress. He says, look, This guy, he's a drug dealer. He's murdered. He's um he's blackmailed, coercion, the rest of it. And he's corrupt. And he he cannot be taken seriously in this courtroom. And that is the first major…

00:49:37.46
Bardi: problem that happens for Escobar because he's now been called out in a place where he wants to be taken seriously. He wants to be taken, he wants to be seen as somebody who can do good for Colombia despite being, you know, a mass murderer.

00:49:50.68
Bardi: So he, he acts like this guy is from the street and he has Bonilla murdered, assassinated.

00:49:50.78
Ricky: yeah

00:49:59.06
Bardi: And if from then on, it spirals out of control and he comes, he changes from being a drug dealer to a terrorist because then he starts bombing public spaces.

00:50:11.70
Bardi: Then he blows up it he blows he blows up an ah Avianca plane with innocent people on it, 103 people on it, to get one guy who's on there.

00:50:12.67
Ricky: shit

00:50:21.86
Bardi: And this is this is the legacy now of Pablo Escobar. He's gone from being this… This humble guy who had ended up making billions from drug dealing to a terrorist who's terrorizing the people of the city he's meant to care so much about because it becomes clear he no longer gives a shit about about the Colombian people. It's all in self-interest. He's frightened of being extradited.

00:50:47.74
Bardi: So much so that when they threatened him with extradition, he builds his own prison. yeah la catterriral He builds it in a bigado. He goes, I'm going to imprison myself so you don't need to send me to ah the US.

00:51:00.66
Bardi: And it just all comes. It's just the start of the unraveling for him at that at that period.

00:51:06.52
Ricky: So I just, like… just trying to piece this together. So obviously, weed dealer, coke dealer, massive drug drug baron, and then he goes into politics.

00:51:10.58
Bardi: Hmm.

00:51:18.98
Ricky: And the the way that, you know, he gives back to the people, football pitches and hospitals and stuff like that. But then also the you know, look like like we're talking about the cartel and using that money and the amount of people that would have had jobs under him would be thousands.

00:51:34.10
Bardi: Mm-hmm.

00:51:38.39
Ricky: So like, and you were saying about the kind of, uh, the people that are doing, you know, university students doing summer jobs is actually what people do for a living. That's, you know, the, the kind of standard of living uh,

00:51:55.19
Ricky: all these people that he's given back to or that they you know he's um that they have jobs, they're his driver, they're his chemist, they're his whatever it might be, and then all these neighborhoods that ah love him, it's now that legacy is just nosediving because is just becoming a murderous, just getting everyone, anyone and everyone fucking out.

00:52:14.53
Bardi: Nosedive in all the time, yeah.

00:52:21.94
Bardi: And my wife was young at the time, but it was, Medellin was the murder capital of the world. And he's he's targeting politicians, he's targeting individuals, he's threatening people. um it was my wife didn't there was There was nights, evenings where there would be gunfire in the streets somewhere below. Someone would someone would shoot, someone would fire something and you you would hear it. And it became an incredibly unsafe place. Even still today, at night, in certain parts, if the traffic light is red, you you don't stop. You go through. You you look.

00:52:55.26
Bardi: Make sure no other cars come in, obviously, but you don't stop at traffic lights. And it just…

00:52:59.48
Ricky: what it what to What now?

00:53:01.56
Bardi: Even now, even now, well, because the the customs carried on and people were like, I'm not stopping at traffic light, but still…

00:53:06.20
Ricky: Right, okay, fair enough, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:53:08.02
Bardi: So there's ah there's a famous saying they say in Medellin and it's called, don't be a papaya, which is ah which is a fruit. And it's one of the easiest fruits to pick.

00:53:18.87
Bardi: And they still use this term now, don't show wealth, don't be… Don't be um too relaxed in areas because you'll make yourself an easy target. And it was one of those that in the 80s, in the 90s, you had to be careful.

00:53:32.46
Bardi: you wouldn't You wouldn't wear fancy stuff. You wouldn't drive fancy cars because you'd make yourself a target because people would go…

00:53:39.22
Ricky: Right.

00:53:40.50
Bardi: Escobar can do it, so I'm just going to go and do it. And there was um a ah father of one of my wife's, um a girl that she went to school with, they weren't friends, but like someone in the school who was kidnapped and then ransomed.

00:53:55.10
Bardi: And that's just that was just a way of making money. So people would get snatched off the streets in very Escobar fashion and yeah and then be put up for ransom.

00:54:01.72
Ricky: Fucking hell.

00:54:04.70
Bardi: And that was… That was, yeah, that was just what happened. And it's all part of him just enabling that behavior. But there is um an interesting topic here, which I was going to surprise you with, but it's the cartel football.

00:54:18.26
Bardi: So do you know anything about um cartel football in Colombia in the mid eighty s

00:54:23.83
Ricky: Absolutely not.

00:54:24.98
Bardi: So, as ah because we're both football fans, I thought you might find this funny or interesting. So I'll go'll go through it quickly because I know we're running out of time. but So obviously Pablo Escobar was from the Medellin area. He was a big supporter Atletico Nacional, which is ah the biggest team in Medellin.

00:54:41.63
Ricky: Is that the team you go and support?

00:54:42.96
Bardi: That's a team I go and support, yeah.

00:54:44.50
Ricky: um ah On a flash score, I've got them saved so I can keep looking at the results when you're out there because saw you going to the games.

00:54:48.28
Bardi: yeah

00:54:51.00
Bardi: Yeah, and then obviously in Cali, the oruueass the Rodriguez Oreuelas, even for me, that's a tough one to say. They supported America de Cali.

00:54:58.65
Ricky: ah

00:55:00.64
Bardi: So what you had is you had sports washing done via the cartel. So we're very used to seeing Audi states buying football clubs. ro ah Roman de Brunberg is washing their money, trying to get legitimacy with the people by using football.

00:55:10.04
Ricky: Right.

00:55:15.06
Bardi: So it's not new. It's been going on for a long time. so

00:55:18.18
Ricky: Right.

00:55:19.28
Bardi: Pablo Escobar had Nacional, I'm going to call them. And then the other the the Cali cartel had Americas. And they were fighting each other on the pitch to see who could become champions of South America. And they got there by influencing matches, pressuring opposition, threatening referees. And eventually Nacional won the Libertadores, which is the South American Champions League.

00:55:45.53
Ricky: yep Yeah.

00:55:46.14
Bardi: So he was like, oh, that's that's mine. The Cali cartel lost three finals in a row in 85, 86, 87. Now, you need to take in context for a Colombian side to reach. Colombian teams have only ever won two.

00:56:00.26
Bardi: Two Libertadores. But for America de Cali to reach three in a row was just like unheard of. Unheard of, but purely cartel playing big boys with the football clubs.

00:56:12.16
Bardi: So that was what that's what they were doing in the eighty s

00:56:12.50
Ricky: i

00:56:15.26
Ricky: and And they lost all three of those finals.

00:56:17.05
Bardi: They lost all three.

00:56:18.74
Ricky: mate.

00:56:19.06
Bardi: yeah ah Yeah, so there were some repercussions.

00:56:19.26
Ricky: Fucking hell. Yeah.

00:56:22.25
Bardi: But they what they did…

00:56:23.19
Ricky: never repercussion

00:56:26.01
Bardi: But what they did was they were able to keep the good players. So the national team is legends. Aspria, Escobar, the one that got shot in 94, Rene Higuita, Aristobal.

00:56:39.51
Bardi: What the cartels did was give the money, the club clubs enough money so they didn't have to sell their best players to Europe for a period of time, which is also why the Colombian football was was so strong then.

00:56:50.07
Ricky: Wow. no i was I mean, I've got it written in the the running order about the two Escobars, the documentary, which I thought was was was amazing.

00:56:51.08
Bardi: Hmm.

00:56:56.57
Bardi: good Good show.

00:56:59.15
Ricky: But how the the parallels of that, how true is it that it's kind of like, so was it World Cup? Night 4?

00:57:08.02
Bardi: It was USA 94.

00:57:08.29
Ricky: And… Fuck. Fuck.

00:57:10.42
Bardi: So Colombia had qualified um in glorious fashion.

00:57:10.49
Ricky: and

00:57:14.07
Bardi: They beat Argentina 5-0 in Buenos Aires, a game they still they still talk about it to this day.

00:57:17.37
Ricky: fuck

00:57:20.31
Ricky: course.

00:57:20.89
Bardi: And they went to the World Cup as one of the favorites. Pelé said they they're going to win it. And there was, obviously Escobar was dead by now. But there was a lot of hype and a lot of expectations. So a lot of the lot of the the the vacuum the power vacuum had a lot of different gangsters and everything. They put a lot of money on Colombia to win the World Cup.

00:57:41.94
Bardi: And things didn't go right from the start. And they lost. I think they lost their opening two matches. they They won their final one, I think. But the coach at the time, Maturano, was being pressured by gangsters. There was phone calls and threats to the hotel they were staying at. There was a player called Jaime Gomez who was admitted from the squad because he crumbled under the under the pressure and under the threats. And it was just this amazing football team packed full of stars, went to this World Cup and just folded.

00:58:12.31
Bardi: and um one of the players held responsible for that was um andres escobar who was known as the gentleman a kind elegant footballer who was on his way to ac milan um had a whole we had a real big future in front of him he scored an own goal and he was he was murdered coming out of a nightclub now there was conflicting stories about who did it or why did it, what happened.

00:58:37.53
Ricky: Yeah.

00:58:37.74
Bardi: But it was, it looks like it wasn't anything to do with the gambling. He just simply got in an argument with someone and they shot him. And that's, that was how easy to die that back then.

00:58:45.56
Ricky: Right.

00:58:48.38
Ricky: So, ah like, with that, and it's like, it's called the two Escobars, and you're saying that Pablo was dead before then.

00:58:51.76
Bardi: Hmm.

00:58:54.39
Bardi: And they think, had he not died, because he was such a football fanatic, this is a guy obsessed with football, that he would demand…

00:58:54.62
Ricky: so

00:59:03.16
Bardi: like you imagine you being in prison, but to pass your time, you demand Tottenham come and play a game with you and your mates in prison? That's what he would do. he would demand that the national team left training all the way up the mountain and come and played a game of football with him and his mates in in the prison that he built.

00:59:21.16
Bardi: So because he was such a football fanatic, they think had he been alive, he may have been able to protect the team a little bit or told people to to back away.

00:59:29.37
Ricky: Right, okay.

00:59:31.14
Bardi: Don't let them play, let them play. But he wasn't there. And as I said, there was a power vacuum. So it we went out of control. Yeah.

00:59:37.11
Ricky: So it was nothing to do with him or the cartel or or anything like that. Right.

00:59:41.24
Bardi: It's just a very sad story. Just obviously maybe they saw him and then shouted something at him.

00:59:44.09
Ricky: right

00:59:48.35
Bardi: That's the story anyway, that there was some words exchanged and then he was, he was shocked. Obviously the guy that shot him was connected, but it wasn't, I don't think it was to do exactly with the own goal.

00:59:58.49
Ricky: Right. Okay. Right. I see. You've mentioned ah the prison a few times.

01:00:03.00
Bardi: Hmm.

01:00:03.84
Ricky: Now, shit let's finish up there. what So what was it called? like Lucky?

01:00:09.88
Bardi: The cathedral, la catedral.

01:00:11.29
Ricky: the Okay. I just wanted you to say it because it sounds good. um And it was ah a self-built prison, wasn't it? And it had football pitches.

01:00:19.74
Bardi: Self-built prison.

01:00:21.74
Ricky: Didn't it have like a um a bar?

01:00:23.00
Bardi: A bar.

01:00:23.86
Ricky: Yeah.

01:00:23.86
Bardi: yeah Nightclub, everything.

01:00:25.56
Ricky: And it, yeah.

01:00:28.50
Bardi: Women coming up to visit all the time.

01:00:31.42
Ricky: How, like,

01:00:35.14
Ricky: it's it's unfathomable to even think about or can that conceive that someone is that powerful and respected that they are able to say, right okay, I know I did bad things.

01:00:45.86
Bardi: Yeah.

01:00:53.70
Ricky: Instead of you extraditing me, i'm good with all the money that I've got, going to build a prison. And I will go to prison, but this is how the prison will be. And this is how the guards will be. And this is who's going to look after me. And this is when people are going to be allowed in. And, you know, he sets the rules. He sets the tone. He does everything, which is absolutely crazy.

01:01:17.05
Bardi: Yeah, so so i'm ah I'm a little bit worried that we're perhaps making light of a lot of this stuff, which is why before we finish, I would like to touch on a few things. But he was such a terrorist and such ah a threat to the community and the people of Colombia that in the end, him incarcerating himself and taking himself out of the way was almost a relief to to people. And at least we know where he is. He's there. And it's semi-fuck.

01:01:46.62
Bardi: kind of imprisonment, at least a token a token gesture.

01:01:49.88
Ricky: Yeah.

01:01:50.46
Bardi: But he' eventually the government goes, no, we can't this can't continue to happen. he's got There's ah one anecdote. Rene Higuita, the famous Colombian football goalkeeper, the one that did the Scorpion and the rest of it, he gets invited up for a game and there's a penalty shootout.

01:02:02.63
Ricky: Yeah.

01:02:07.02
Bardi: And he he accident he tries to not save it, but he saves the penalty from Pablo Escobar. and he's really concerned that he saved his penalty and there's going to be ramifications.

01:02:17.50
Bardi: But apparently Escobar was like, don't worry, mate. That's why you're Colombia's number one goalkeeper. So he he lets him off. But these footballers and these singers and everything else, they felt compelled to go because of the threat of violence that could happen to them. Because not going there…

01:02:32.44
Bardi: would have been seen as a gesture of, I don't support you. I don't care for you. And that would have been worse than than going because it would have been, you're you're my enemy. And that's that's that's always the problem with these with these lunatics. So he's up in the cathedral. He's there for, I don't know how long,

01:02:49.37
Bardi: But eventually he figures out, he finds out that the government are going to shut that down and they're going to come get him.

01:02:53.66
Ricky: Yeah.

01:02:54.81
Bardi: But they he has spotters. They see him they see the raid coming and he gets out. And he lives his final final days of of his life in a miserable existence, being chased around the the streets of Colombia.

01:03:08.73
Bardi: People after him, his money hemorrhaging, his business gone to shit. And ultimately, the fall of um Escobar was the murders, the bodies. He racked up too many bodies. Whereas the Cali cartel, eventually it did fall, but they dealt in other ways. They tried not to kill as many people because when the bodies start mounting, anyone who's watched any kind of TV show knows that people have to intervene and it's it's it's your it's your downfall.

01:03:35.29
Ricky: When you're saying Cali cartel, is this America, California, or is this…

01:03:40.47
Bardi: No, Cali is in there's a city in Colombia called Cali.

01:03:44.06
Ricky: Right, okay. I should have asked that earlier because I was just assumed it was there was this some some kind of war that was over countries or something like that.

01:03:45.98
Bardi: Sorry.

01:03:49.46
Bardi: yeah no no no no it's like the third biggest city in um in colombia

01:03:57.14
Ricky: Right, okay. See, there you go My ignorance again. There you go.

01:04:00.70
Bardi: So on that, and then ah I can't not leave this without saying in this. So obviously we mentioned Barrio Escobar, which is the the only monument, the only thing still standing in Medellin, which bears his name.

01:04:08.47
Ricky: oh

01:04:14.74
Bardi: the other The other, the Los Olivos is the neighborhood where he was either, depending on which conservative conspiracy theory you believe, he was either committed suicide or was executed.

01:04:26.94
Bardi: That,

01:04:27.00
Ricky: Right. So, yeah, so his end days, he was apparently running on rooftops with with ah with an accomplice or someone else.

01:04:34.10
Bardi: Yeah. Yeah.

01:04:36.22
Ricky: And the the saying is that he was chased and shot down. But then the the the conflicting other story is that rather than ah face prison in America or be or fit or face being captured alive, that he took his own life.

01:04:53.18
Bardi: Yeah, so he was running, he was living in neighborhoods, he was running from house to house. There was ah Los Pepes, which was ah an organization of of of people backed by, depends which story you want to believe, backed by the CIA, backed by the Cali cartel. They were hunting him down all the time.

01:05:09.62
Bardi: And um they he made a phone call to his son, I think, to wish happy birthday. And they were driving around the neighborhoods where they kind of knew he was with a tracker. They heard his voice and then they went after him.

01:05:18.29
Ricky: Yeah. yep

01:05:20.70
Bardi: He ran across the rooftops and then he that's where he he died. And it's in the Los Olivos neighborhood, which is very close to the the football stadium, ironically. But there is no there was no placard there. There is no statue. There is no mention. It's just a house.

01:05:36.66
Bardi: And the Monaco building was a luxury set of apartments, which he built and lived in. In 2019, the Council of Medellin knocked that down and built in its place a park which reme in remembrance of all people who've been murdered in cartel activity.

01:05:53.40
Bardi: So that doesn't even mention Escobar specifically. So what's happened in Colombia is they've taken the lessons from Pablo. They've taken the lessons from from this terrorist, from this mass murderer and tried to turn it into a positive thing. So you don't see Escobar's face anywhere normal, anywhere that's not super, super, super touristy.

01:06:15.67
Bardi: So you can walk into a tourist shop in an airport. You can walk into a tourist shop any shopping center. There won't be Escobar's face on anything. But if you go into the cheesiest, tackiest tourist spots in Medellin, you will see his face everywhere.

01:06:30.87
Bardi: So it's like the Colombians are, it doesn't help when there's a new TV show every year, but they're trying to move on past this terrorist and not have him define who they are as a country anymore.

01:06:31.44
Ricky: Right.

01:06:43.67
Ricky: Right, okay. So they're trying to… So ah Colombians, they are ah they're trying to erase that kind of history, that part. that I mean, they they accept it, but it's more like, let's not celebrate that part.

01:06:53.95
Bardi: Yeah.

01:06:56.67
Ricky: And noticed that you're referring to him as a terrorist, and I would would imagine that's how… um a lot of people feel about him and his ways and stuff like that instead of ah like celebrated you know but you see a lot of like Shea Guevara t-shirts and that kind of stuff and it's not really kind of like that is it yeah

01:07:12.38
Bardi: yeah

01:07:16.58
Bardi: It's not appropriate. You even see the thing with like Chairman Mao t-shirts and that kind of stuff. It's like, come on, man. um If you blow up an airplane with members of the public on it, then I don't think there's any other label other than terrorists, really.

01:07:29.63
Bardi: If you if you blow up government buildings and you assassinate political politicians, you are a terrorist.

01:07:30.06
Ricky: sure

01:07:36.19
Bardi: So the Colombians, they don't try and forget, they accept it and they're sorry for the amount of people that died and they try to remember the the young men and young women who who were fooled into this and gave their life for for no cause at all and yeah they've moved on but like I said at right to start narco tourism is a thing the the tv shows on Netflix the tv shows on Disney plus have kind of glamorized it and as an appetite

01:08:01.63
Ricky: I've actually, yeah, I've actually, I very rarely watch anything on Netflix, but I have seen that.

01:08:07.96
Bardi: Yeah, so there's there's an appetite for it. The Escobar grave. So I'm in an expat community on Facebook. And occasionally a gringo who's just arrived in Medellin will go, hey, everybody, where's where's where's his grave site?

01:08:20.97
Bardi: And the comments will always be like, fuck off.

01:08:21.34
Ricky: Right.

01:08:23.61
Bardi: Just go back just go back to America, gringo. But there are walking tours that go to his grave site. And you you can go and visit it. It it is there.

01:08:31.93
Ricky: So he does have a grave site and yeah and it is accessible to to people, but it's not really like, you know…

01:08:36.34
Bardi: It is accessible. People go there, but it's the only thing. The cathedral is still standing, but it's now it's now run and owned by a religious community. So they look after it. So you can't go in there. As I said, the the rooftop where he died, it's a house. It's just a regular house. There's nothing there. And the the apartment building's gone. Napoles, Hacienda Napoles, which is his finca out in the countryside, is still there.

01:09:00.95
Bardi: the um The hippopotamus or the the son or the daughter of the original hippo that he bought from Africa is still there.

01:09:07.38
Ricky: Yeah.

01:09:07.95
Bardi: But it's ah it's a theme park now. You go there and you, there's, yeah, it's a run-of-the-mill theme park.

01:09:14.46
Ricky: Wow. I mean, you come on. Give me the the the hippo fact that you've got. the bit that

01:09:19.22
Bardi: Well, he, I don't know the hippo. I don't, there's a film. There's a really nice film about it, about a hippo being in Colombia from the hippo's point of view. i can't remember what it's called. But he, yeah, you go for it.

01:09:28.54
Ricky: say that yeah i'll go now what the the bit that I saw that i was like amazed by the Let me see. Escobar imported exotic animals for his private zoo.

01:09:41.95
Ricky: After his death, the hippos escaped. Now Colombia has a large wild population of descendants that has become a major environmental issue. So he's imported a hippo.

01:09:53.24
Bardi: Yeah. Yeah.

01:09:53.95
Ricky: he's had it at his zoo and now he's gone and no one's looked after it or it's it's escaped. and Now there is a population of hippos in Colombia wreaking havoc.

01:10:02.81
Bardi: mad, isn't it? Because people, so much, what are you going to do with so much money?

01:10:03.77
Ricky: That is mad.

01:10:06.58
Bardi: Bring in a hippo. But I really wanted to stress this point at the end because I think as much as it's it's it's interesting and it's funny and the things he does, ah the things he did are just like so out there and so unbelievable that that we laugh about it.

01:10:21.95
Bardi: We have to remember, yeah we have to remember that there is, he left a trail of destruction across across Columbia and it's, it's,

01:10:22.14
Ricky: Of course. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:10:31.46
Bardi: It's like like any country that's that's had to survive ah a megalomaniac like this. Germany, everybody else has had to deal with it. to deal with it it's um It's a part of their history that theyre they're not proud of, but they accept it.

01:10:46.86
Bardi: But it's just now narco-tourism is something which is taking off there. And it's it's uncomfortable for for a lot of a lot of Colombians.

01:10:57.46
Ricky: Yeah, I mean, ah like ah like you're saying about the the kind of ah laughter, not laughing at the actual thing, it's just the kind of, you cannot conceive that this happened and the way it happened and everything around it as well.

01:11:03.27
Bardi: Yeah. Yeah.

01:11:11.41
Ricky: And plus in in in Europe and like you know the Western side, that how Escobar is perceived and it is kind of like this Robin Hood tale that he is…

01:11:27.00
Ricky: you know, you know, thought of like God, like, but within Columbia is completely different. And, ah you know, I wasn't going to draw parallels to a certain ah German man that you were kind of ah referring to them.

01:11:39.52
Ricky: But when you were speaking that there is, you know, there is a relation to that, ah the history and acknowledging it and acknowledging everything that's gone on. But, you know, moving forward as a country, you know, completely, obviously understandable.

01:11:48.89
Bardi: Yeah.

01:11:54.46
Bardi: yeah Of course, Hitler was was was Austrian. He wasn't German. But yeah, it's it's still so intertwined with that country's history.

01:11:57.24
Ricky: No. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:12:01.40
Bardi: And um you can you can see how the it's just what it's um how many, 80 years maybe since the war, since the Second World War. And it's still such a part of of how people reflect or how people think about Germany.

01:12:14.10
Bardi: And unfortunately for Colombians, I don't think there'll ever come a time where their country's not associated with with cocaine, with Pablo Escobar. but they they're trying there is so i'm obviously a huge a huge fan of colombia um i was a fan before i married my wife it's a it's an incredible place diverse it's got it's got coastline on three different oceans it's a beautiful place the people are great but there is i don't think they'll ever shake off no matter how many shakiras they they they have how many jay balvin's the rest of it they they will never shake this off

01:12:48.66
Ricky: Yeah.

01:12:52.18
Bardi: And, but unfortunately, there is a small minority of Colombians who are making money out of this. And you could see it with the t-shirts, the mag fridge magnets, the rest of it. It's just, it's unfortunate, but it's it's part of who they are, but it's not no longer what they want to be thought of as. You see what mean?

01:13:09.94
Ricky: No, completely. Is there anything else that you feel like that we didn't cover or that you would like to kind of ah sign off with on on Columbia? I mean, it's very hard to squeeze that and you know like that history into an hour podcast, but it's kind of a a good, quick walking tour of someone that is, you know,

01:13:22.20
Bardi: yeah

01:13:33.14
Ricky: is it's been there lived there you know Colombian wife and to really understand because you know admittedly hands up and people on patreon you'll be able to see me putting my hands up that i you know ignorant of all of this and previously that's where in whatsapp groups and barley's mentioned colombia and i've made the you know the cliched cocaine jokes and you're like

01:13:33.43
Bardi: I think so. Yeah.

01:13:57.30
Ricky: I get it, but you've got to stop doing that because the amount of um hurt, the kind of image that they want, they want to move forward and it isn't, you know, what you think is. And so then over the years we've been, you know, learning from you about the the kind of damage and stuff like that. And it's like, okay, i I get it now, but I, you know, I was very admittedly ignorant and a lot more informed now. And especially after this podcast, mate, I fucking know a lot more.

01:14:23.74
Bardi: Yeah, good. that it's that it's it's ah It's a country that's booming at the moment. Tourism is flying. Obviously, that brings with its own issues, the price of of of apartments, like kind of what's happening in Barcelona now. When tourism goes so high, local wages can't match what the tourists have gone. So it brings its own challenges. But I find it's…

01:14:44.46
Bardi: The amount of foreigners now I see there is completely changed since 2008. I was an exotic being when I arrived there. I was the English guy. And now I'm just one of one of millions just pottering around the place.

01:14:53.48
Ricky: Yeah.

01:14:58.62
Bardi: it's an If people want to go, highly recommend it. It's an incredible place. If you want to do the jungle, there's a jungle. If you want to do coast, if you want to sit on a beach, you can do that. If you want to go around the city, Medellin has got a lot of history, a lot of art.

01:15:11.23
Bardi: We didn't even touch on like Comuna 13, things like that. There is so much to see and so much to do there. It's a great place. And Ricky, you going to come visit me?

01:15:20.62
Ricky: I'd fucking love to, you but like but can can you ah imagine me telling my missus and kids, by the way, I'm off for two weeks.

01:15:22.13
Bardi: You need to come, boy.

01:15:25.91
Bardi: yeah

01:15:27.83
Ricky: Why are we going to Columbia?

01:15:29.37
Bardi: my My friends and Alex, including Alex of Bristol, that we know and love fondly, they came to my wedding when I got married there in 2017.

01:15:29.66
Ricky: ah ah

01:15:38.05
Bardi: And like they came for a long weekend to Colombia because that was all their wives would allow. They arrived on the Friday morning in Colombia and they stayed until the Monday evening.

01:15:49.14
Bardi: Can you imagine flying all that way just so because they they weren't trusted to stay any longer?

01:15:51.32
Ricky: No, that is ridiculous. Yeah, exactly. I would never get that time. But, i mate, I'd love to, man. i'd love I've never visited that part of the world. absolutely would love to.

01:16:03.35
Bardi: My house is yours whenever you want it.

01:16:05.50
Ricky: Thank you very much, mate. Right. We are going to go over to something only you know. Now, the topic for next week is the great outdoors. Hiking, running, fishing, cycling, kayaking.

01:16:20.02
Ricky: Now, I'll let you into a little secret. That… episode has already been recorded okay I am off on holiday and whilst away on holiday I didn't want to do any podcast recording thinking about you know work or anything like that so it has already been recorded but as ah people that are a member of the Patreon, patreon.com slash ladsanonpod, Quickie with Ricky, all your stories and anything that you've got to say about that pod and the great outdoors and this pod and all the other pods, I will be covering it on that too. Now we are… So you can still send anything in that you want to, ladsanonpod at gmail.com. Now we are going to be going into…

01:17:09.05
Bardi: you

01:17:13.91
Ricky: This one's called Having My Cake and Eating It. I've been sleeping with a married woman for the last 10 years. No one knows. Years ago, we were a thing.

01:17:26.52
Ricky: I was young and couldn't keep it in my pants. Always tempted by something different to what I had. Thing is, she was hot. Like I was punching.

01:17:37.52
Ricky: Couldn't have got better if I'd paid for it. I got caught out, but she wanted to work it out. I knew I wanted to be young and free, so we split up. She was devastated.

01:17:50.46
Ricky: Over the years, I'd heard she'd got married, had kids and all that. get a Facebook message asking me if I want to catch up and she's in the area.

01:18:01.58
Bardi: Thank you.

01:18:02.42
Ricky: Don't think anything of it. I agree to meet for lunch. Little pasta restaurant that we used to go to. Fairly busy when we meet. Damn. She's smoking hot.

01:18:13.77
Ricky: I fucked up a long time ago. She tells me her whole life has been a lie since we split. She's never wanted anyone else. A few weeks go by and we've been messaging on an app called Dust.

01:18:28.02
Ricky: messages disappear once sent. We arrange to meet. It's off the charts. The second, first time. Then again, and again, and again. And it carries on for months, for years.

01:18:43.14
Ricky: Stolen nights, weekends away, even trips abroad. And this is the thing that only I know. All the way through this, she thinks it's only her.

01:18:56.52
Ricky: I've had relationships from flings of a few nights here and there, months and months at a time, even full on couple of years that she knows nothing about.

01:19:08.34
Ricky: No one. Just me. But just can't give her up. Every time I've tried to settle down, ah just can't. It always reverts back to her.

01:19:20.54
Ricky: And that is something only I know. I mean, that is a ah that is that is a master swordsman right there. That is that is a top shagger. I mean, if it's this if you loved her so much or you know was into her so much and you always go back to her, why don't you just quit doing the um you know hiding the sausage with everyone?

01:19:45.46
Bardi: I can't, first of all, I can't get my head around the logistics of it. How can you, like, whenever someone tells me that, no one comes to me and tells having an affair, but whenever you find out someone's having an affair, I don't think I could keep the secret, but when when someone's having an affair, how can they balance their two lives? I don't know, it's too stressful, no?

01:20:04.47
Ricky: Mate, yeah, exactly exactly that. And the thing is as well, with my missus, like, she would say… who'd you go out with last night? And I won't mention a certain person but if she doesn't like them.

01:20:16.74
Ricky: And I saying, she'd be like, oh, is that all who went out? And then i'll be like, oh, and I went out with blah, blah, blah. look i cannot like I cannot lie to her for love nor money, let alone have a fucking relationship or for months or years or cheating or anything like that.

01:20:31.59
Ricky: It's, yeah, it's too much, man. I'm 43 years old. Like, I ain't like, no way.

01:20:36.18
Bardi: I really like having sex, obviously, like like most people, but I don't think I love sex enough to be able to live in a permanent state of lying and hiding stuff and deleting messages and deleting where I…

01:20:36.50
Ricky: i mean,

01:20:51.42
Ricky: covering tracks.

01:20:52.79
Bardi: Because my… my it' Like, your Strava, where'd you go? I went running. Like, it's constantly being tracked to where I am.

01:21:00.18
Ricky: yeah ah

01:21:01.40
Bardi: um I couldn't deal with it, but you're right. If it's 10 years on and off, so she's not married, she's single. Yeah.

01:21:07.89
Ricky: Well, she she is married with kids, ah but she's ah desperately unhappy, so she says. So, I mean, like what ah like, you don't want to tell someone to break off a ah you know a relationship, you know a marriage, so to speak, um if you're not you know going to try and work things out with this person.

01:21:30.20
Ricky: But, um yeah, I think you've got to give her up, mate. If you can't if you don't want to… ah pursue this and it is just a lust thing that she's hot as you say mate you've got to you've you've got to put her down let her carry on with her life you can't you can't keep popping up here and there

01:21:49.24
Bardi: The two of them need to have a proper chat about what is going and what's going on where the future is because someone's going to get really hurt here.

01:21:55.22
Ricky: yeah

01:21:56.82
Bardi: and But then they're like, oh, we've done it for 10 years. no one No one's been hurt yet. But there comes a time when you've got to put it away. Put it away.

01:22:05.94
Ricky: yes Yeah.

01:22:07.89
Bardi: Just and up.

01:22:08.06
Ricky: The thing is, is where there's so many people out there like this, like that have, you know, schoolmates and they're, they're, they're, they're both in relationships and they're like, Oh, how are you doing?

01:22:18.57
Ricky: And stuff like that.

01:22:19.42
Bardi: you know what they're not doing?

01:22:19.45
Ricky: And then.

01:22:20.54
Bardi: They're not podcasting like us. That's the thing. oh We're here podcasting. this is well This is an hour, two hours.

01:22:25.37
Ricky: ah

01:22:27.40
Bardi: If we were fucking, we could have we could have snuck away somewhere and just gone for it.

01:22:29.30
Ricky: yeah ah

01:22:31.89
Bardi: Instead, we've been here like two nerds looking at each other.

01:22:33.82
Ricky: ah ah ah quality right okay that'll be a draw to lads anonymous this week if you've got any stories you want to submit after this podcast or after the next podcast send it in to ladsanonpod at gmail.com. This, you'll be able to watch Bardi and i and you'll be able to listen to Bardi and I ad-free, three days before anyone else, Discord chat, you know all the features, and you can come and join us on patreon.com slash ladsanonpod. Before we go, is there any last call-outs that you want to do, Bardi, or anything like that?

01:23:12.66
Bardi: If you're into football, into Spurs, then feel free to join the the the Extra Inch patron at patreon.com forward slash the Extra Inch.

01:23:23.00
Ricky: Lovely stuff.